In light of the uproar over the acceptance of Oneness Modalist T.D. Jakes as a keynote speaker during the Elephant Room's recent gathering, we're posting the videos below which feature a debate held in 1985 between Christian apologetics writer Dr. Walter Martin and Oneness Pentecostal pastor Nathaniel Urshan and Robert Sabin. We would like to also point out the curious fact that, in our experience, many of our fellow Christians don't seem to understand that they can be deceived, and that in fact, the Bible gives warning after warning after warning to Christians to take care that they are not deceived. And that's perhaps one of the most peculiar characteristics of deception.......it doesn't feel like deception. Well, isn't that kind of the whole point of deception? It's not called "Parading In Waving A Flag Stating Its Evil Intent," now is it?
For the record. Deception, by its nature, is designed to confuse, to trick, to ensnare, though in its outward appearance it will often appear beguiling. And when deception happens, let's be discerning enough to recognize that it's not going to be like in the movies: Green smoke won't start oozing under the door and spooky music won't start playing. Heretics will typically not be foaming at the mouth, hostile and half- crazy, charging in and demanding that everyone immediately renounce Christianity. In fact, heretics will often be gentlemanly, likable chaps, and will quote plenty of Scripture, as evidenced in the videos below. You can witness this type of reasoning in the transcript of Session #7 of the Elephant Room 2, where James MacDonald discusses initially being concerned about Bill Hybels, Mark Driscoll, and Steven Furtick; but he explains that once he talks with them and realizes they are all swell, likable guys, all concern is gone. Apparently the same thing happened concerning T.D. Jakes. In our opinion, ER2 misnamed this particular breakout session "We Can Work It Out;" when instead (and still staying with the hip and culturally savvy Beatles motif) that session should have been rightfully named "All You Need Is Love." Does it not seem like the visible church has made the same decision, that "All you need is love"? That nobody can or should challenge doctrine? And that we should all, in the name of "love," rush pell mell into false unity with heretics?
Fellow Christians, please suit up in your spiritual armor, and please take to heart the many scriptural warnings against being deceived. Niceness is not our measure for truth, God's Word is. Whatever is claimed or taught in the name of God must always be held up to the actual Word of God, and studied in context. Let's remember that when Satan tempted Jesus in the desert, he did not make up lies....no, he quoted straight Scripture. Only, the Scripture was taken out of context.
Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” (Satan, quoting from Psalm 91:11,12)
Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” (Matthew 4:5-7)
Additional Resources
Interview With A Former Oneness Pastor
Carl Trueman and the Elephant Room
A Measured Response to Bryan Crawford Loritts' Request for the Reformed Community to “Repent” of their Criticism of T.D. Jakes
File This One Under "Oh, The Irony...."
Talk Show Host Chris Rosebrough Threatened With Arrest At The Elephant Room II
Elephant Room Security on Lookout For Dangerous Persons
Elephant Room II: May We Now Regard T.D. Jakes As Trinitarian and Orthodox?
Hypocrisy Reaches New Heights in The Elephant Room
Threatened With Arrest At The Elephant Room II - Chris Rosebrough's Article
Elephant Room 2 Features Trinity Denier T.D. Jakes As A Keynote Speaker
The Doctrine of the Trinity
Running Scared: Why Is The Elephant Room Afraid of Scrutiny
Even Better Than The Race Card
James MacDonald Resigns From The Gospel Coalition
A Church Breaks With James MacDonald's Harvest Bible Fellowship
A Review of T.D. Jakes Code Orange Sermon
Code Orange: Revival or Deception?
Why Is Oneness Pentecostalism Heresy?
James MacDonald Digs Deeper Hole For the Elephant Room
T.D. Jakes' Modalism is Just the Tip of the Iceberg
James MacDonald, T.D. Jakes and Postmodern Obfuscation
Oneness-Pentecostals vs. Christians
Is Nicene Christianity That Important? An historical-ecumenical note

I'm glad you put up all these videos and I hope people will take heed of this cult
ReplyDeleteThe very, VERY sad part about Oneness pentecostal groups such as the position TD Jakes holds are that they don't realize that it (IS essential to salvation) to place your faith in the One True God as revealed in Scripture or you cannot be saved. Many people think its no big deal and why all the fuss- this is what I fear especially with the TD Jakes and MacDonald romance at ER2 that has blurred and belittled the very Character of our Triune God of the Bible. This is such a travesty because many people will end up in hell because they thought that their faith and being sincere saved them.
--Jesus said~~"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent"-John 17:3.
Jesus said that HE is the one who reveals the Father (Mat.11:27 and Luke 10:22) "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him"
If the Oneness Jesus reveals the God of the bible as modalism teaches, then they have a counterfeit Jesus. THAT Jesus is an impostor and cannot reveal the Father because he's not real and he's powerless to do so. This Counterfeit Jesus cannot wash away anyone's sins since he never existed to shed his blood at the cross. An impostor is unable to reveal the Father because he's not the Unique true Son begotten of the Father as Scripture clearly teaches.
Thanks so much for posting this.
ReplyDeleteI have had dealings with Oneness folk from time to time here in North GA. They are particularly adept at side-stepping and subterfuge. I had a long conversation with one a few years ago that left me scratching my head.
Watching this series by Dr. Ankerberg was very helpful. Just recently, I caught a tweet by Dr. James White about one simple question that would require a direct response. "Sir, did the Son, as a divine Person, distinct as a Father as a divine Person, exist prior to the birth of the Messiah in Bethlehem?" I think this one question would have helped me greatly to pin down a person who equivocates on Trinitarianism.
I don't understand why so many Christians don't discern the seriousness of someone who has problems with Trinitarian theology. It strikes at the core of Biblical Christianity in a way that totally negates salvation.
The logical conclusion of Oneness theology is either a Gnostic view of Christ, or a dead God. The silence by the general body of Christ is deafening. I hear crickets chirping. Thanks to folks like you, there is a sane remnant voice breaking the silence over this issue. It is quite troubling.
I certainly miss Dr. Martin. He was a character. He was a true Warrior for Christ.
May you continue with fidelity to God's Word and devotion to Christ Jesus our Lord in your own battle for Biblical Christianity. Beware friendly fire.
Keep the faith, and give it away, as well,
Eric Adams
Rossville, GA
Eric - I have to admit that I have also struggled with the seriousness of modalism, but I'm slowly getting it. And I think God has graciously put the focus on this issue right now through the controversy of well-regarded leaders (Driscoll, MacDonald) linking with a Modalist (Jakes). Does doctrine divide truth from error, as God's Word says it will, or doesn't it?
DeleteLuke 12:51 "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division."
2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears...."
Eric- friendly fire indeed- because as you know, living in the Bible belt means most people profess to be Christians. So you mix that with a whole generation of church goers who have been brainwashed to think that doctrine is literally a bad word- you are gonna get some friendly-fire.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many bumper sticker slogans in the current pop Christian culture that reinforce the idea that a concern for right doctrine is equivalent to legalism/Phariseeism:
"Deeds, not creeds."
"No creed but Christ."
"It's about relationship- not religion."
"Don't put God in a box."
2 Thess. 2 says that in the end times people will not love the truth, and as a judgement God will send a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false.
Wow- if we are not there yet, I really just can't imagine how it could get much worse.
There is no sense or salvation in the Trinity doctrine. The simple truth of Scripture is that God was in Christ bringing the world back into right standing with Himself. The Father (God) came in the Son (Man), eho was completely subject to Him in all things. This was not two persons in God, but the Spirit of God in a person--the Man Christ Jesus.
ReplyDeleteAnon- while it is true that technically there is no salvation in the Trinity Doctrine- it is also true that there is no salvation if you put your faith in a god other than the one revealed in scripture- and the God revealed in scripture is not as you describe. Wrong god, wrong gospel. God the Father did not become God the Son.
ReplyDeleteThe biblical basis for believing that there's (ONE GOD) is found in Genesis 1:1. "In the beginning GOD,” Not gods or small g but GOD.
ReplyDeleteThe plural form of the ONE God being Triune is in Genesis 1:1 ~ Elohim.
1:1 ¶ In the beginning 7225 ´Élöhîm אֱלֹהִים 430 created 1254 853 z8804 the heaven 8064 and y853 the earth. 776
Deuteronomy 6:4
Originally to stay true to the Hebrew language interpreted into our English language it is interpreted
~ “Hear O Israel: The Lord-(Jehovah) our God-(Elohim), the Lord-(Jehovah) is one. Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah”…
6:4 Hear, 8085 z8798 O Yi$rä´ël יִשׂרָאֵל: 3478 Yähwè יָהוֶה 3068 our ´Élöhîm אֱלֹהִים 430 [is] one 259 Yähwè