It was on this show (Wretched) that I was first introduced to - besides Mark Driscoll - John MacArthur, Bob DeWaay, Robert Glenn, Paul Washer, David Wheaton, Alistair Begg, Phil Johnson, Mark Dever, Voddie Baucham, and others. Wow. I mean, just right there, you've got a lifetime worth of listening and reading materials.
With Driscoll, as was my usual pattern, I went to his church website and downloaded a bunch of sermons. There was a lot to like about Driscoll. He was funny. He was
Now I have a new reason to be even more uncomfortable with Mark Driscoll: he's promoting contemplative prayer and how to hear personal words from God.
From a recent post by Winfield Bevins at Driscoll's website Resurgence:
Steps for Meditative Prayer
- Designate a quiet place. In a world full of distractions, we need a quiet place where we can allow God to speak to us. The most effective place to pray is where you are least likely to be
disturbed . - Give yourself 20-30 minutes. Many people only spend a few minutes each day in prayer. Very few people actually spend time in meditative prayer. It takes time to drown out the cares of the world, sit, prayerfully meditate on God's word, and then allow him to speak to us.
- Choose Scripture to prayerfully meditate on. Prayerfully select a passage of Scripture that means something to you. Let it either focus on the goodness of God, the promises of God, or the worship of God.
- Allow God to speak to you. This is the hardest part. Many people never hear the Lord speak to them simply because they don't allow him to. We need to sit and listen for the voice of the Lord. Samuel was open to hearing from the Lord (1 Samuel 3). He said, "Speak, for your servant hears."
Mysticism ("personal words from God") = the Opposite of Sola ScripturaLet me explain. Reformed Christians believe in the Solas of the Reformation. It was the Solas that rescued the church out of the mire of the man-made traditions of Roman Catholic Monasticism which had a vice-like grip, up until that point, on Christendom. Sola Scriptura is one of the Five Solas, and it simply means that we understand the Bible to clearly teach that the way we "hear" from God is through the Bible. The Bible addresses this very specifically in the book of Hebrews, explaining that before the finished canon, God spoke to his people through prophets of his designation, but that once Jesus came, he was our final and greatest Prophet, and now speaks to us through his Word:
"In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." (Hebrews 1:1-2)Contemplative prayer, on the other hand, is a form of mysticism that has nothing to do with Biblical meditation and study of the Word. Rather, it is derived from Roman Catholic Monastic practices (which in turn borrowed liberally from the pagan religious practices of the east). Contemplative prayer involves corralling, or emptying, the mind for the purpose of "hearing from God." Contemplative prayer is a technique which puts the practitioner into an altered state of consciousness. But nowhere in Scripture is this practice described or commanded. Mysticism is what pagans conjure up in lieu of truth. Thankfully, Christians already have the Truth and can know it through God's merciful provision of the Word. We must not yield in this area.
John Wesley had a famous saying that I love: "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, but not in the way it is often used today. Today's Christians will often quote this whenever there is any kind of disagreement, without first ascertaining whether or not the issue of concern is a matter of essential doctrine. This saying, rightly understood, means that we must first be able to distinguish between the essentials and the non-essentials. Fellow Christians have tried to convince me that this type of contemplative prayer is simply a matter of personal conviction, or in other words, a non-essential, an area of liberty. It is not.
Another saying - the one that became the motto of the Reformation period - might help steady our thinking in this regard:
"Post tenebras lux" ("After the darkness, light.")Meaning, after the darkness of the middle ages, which were characterized by a syncretized blend of man-made traditions and paganism, came the piercing light of truth, brought forth by the reformers, and literally paid for with their own blood. The people of Martin Luther's day, because they could not read God's Word for themselves, were in terrible spiritual bondage to the whims of the Roman Catholic church. Do we esteem God's Word so little that we would allow it to be paganized again? Truth must be protected. We must reject the false teaching of pastors who claim to be Calvinists but who embrace the contemplative practices of the Roman Catholic Monastic period.
I still love Todd Friel's radio show Wretched, and still get great teaching from it. Those guys do a great job over there, and they must not be faulted simply for giving a forum to someone whose teaching went south on us. This happens with some regularity, but is always shocking nonetheless. J.I. Packer, for instance, wrote the astonishing Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God......but then signed Evangelicals and Catholics Together (ECT) in 1994.
The curious case of Mark Driscoll should simply be a reminder to all of us that we must evaluate all teaching against the truth of Scripture. As my pastor sometimes jokes, you're never really sure about where anyone stands until after they've died. Meaning, if they hold the line till the very end, then they're most likely solid (but after all, only God truly knows the heart).
Additional Resources
Crosstalk Interview: Evangelical Leaders Pushing Mysticism
Mystical Calvinists?
Neo-Calvinist Contemplative Spirituality
Personal Words From God? by Bob DeWaay (part 1)
Personal Words From God? by Bob DeWaay (part 2)
Excellent
ReplyDeleteThanks brother
ReplyDeleteGreat article, Christine.
ReplyDeleteAnd what you wrote earlier, about trying to find a good Reformed church in the Bible belt, is difficult indeed. We have folks that live outside of our county (Calhoun Co., Alabama) that come to our church. Two families drive over an hour each way to be with us to worship God through the Word.
You're right on. Excellent. Thank you. Notice Acts 29 Network includes mystic spirituality in it's Spiritual Formation teachings also. (contemplative)
ReplyDeleteI'm a dissenter from this article. Although I have concerns with Driscoll's ministry because he asserts a lot of his own flesh when he teaches.
ReplyDeleteTrue Mysticism is a part of the Christian life. We do not empty our minds like the pagans. We wait upon the Lord by the Holy Spirit. He comes to show us and the world conviction of sin, righteousness and the coming judgment. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. This testimony is objective and fixed, an unshakeable foundation for the believer. The Spirit works on our subjects to even receive such a testimony. The Spirit's work is subjective in one sense although He be an objective person of the trinity.
Test the spirits.
Two mysterious terms are made known in the scriptures. The mystery of godliness(1 Tim. 3:16) which is Christ made known in these latter days, and the mystery of iniquity (2 Thess. 2:7). We must discern more fully between good and evil.
Dylan - I agree that the Holy Spirit guides us, and that these can be mysterious and powerful encounters. However, the difference between how the Holy Spirit guides us and the use of contemplative prayer is that, with contemplative prayer, God is being "called down," as if we even have the ability to do that! God is not our pet dog that we can "conjure up" when we feel like it. There are no examples in Scripture of God's people being able to "call him down." In fact, examples of this type of conjuring are described as sorcery and are condemned by God.
ReplyDeleteAbraham waited 13 years between his first encounter with the Lord and the second, and these encounters occurred at the time and place of the Lord's choosing. Abraham had nothing to do with "conjuring God up."
Dylan, I do get what you're saying about "waiting on the Lord." We should "wait on the Lord" in the sense that we offer our prayers and petitions to him (because for some unfathomable reason He cares for wretches like us). But to empty our minds first and wait for audible words? Nowhere in Scripture, at least not as a condoned practice...
The difference is between waiting with our minds filled with Scripture and thoughts about God (biblical meditation), as compared to waiting while using a verse repeated over and over again to empty our minds and silence our thoughts (contemplative meditation).
ReplyDeleteGod speaks through His Word (biblical meditation), not apart from His Word in some form of Kierkegaardian mystical encounter
ReplyDeleteStep 4 isn't talking about God speaking to you directly but simply meditating on the meaning of the scripture and allowing it to speak to you
ReplyDeleteWalter - When you say "allowing (the scripture) to speak to you, what do you mean by that?
ReplyDeleteChristians today have this mistaken notion that prayer is about us getting alone, praying a while, then "listening" for what God has to say to us. This is not prayer. This is a pagan practice. Prayer is what we speak to the Lord. The Bible is what the Lord speaks to us.
So things like "Marry Bob instead of Jack" and "Buy the brown truck" and "Don't sell the house now" are examples of what we will NOT hear in our meditations.
Wesley was quoting St. Augustine when he said, "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." Will you throw that one out too since Augustine was part of that mystic tradition? Just curious...
ReplyDeleteBlessings,
Aaron
I think it may have been Spurgeon (not sure) who said, "A person can be a mystic or a Christian, but he cannot be both."
ReplyDeleteDo you have nothing better to do with your time?
ReplyDeleteJonathan - Don't worry about me, it's a labor of love ;)
ReplyDeleteSola,
ReplyDeleteSo I do hear what you're saying. I'm an avid listener of Mark Driscoll's and he has challenged me on a great many levels in my Christian walk and as a man. There are certain things I take issue with him on, such as the nature of demons, but I believe what you are dissenting on here IS a secondary issue. The Bible DOES call us to meditate on the Word of God and to go into our rooms, shut the door and pray to God. There is nothing Biblically unsound about asking the Lord to come and be present with you. We do it all the time in Church, and we call upon the name of the Lord in times of trouble. I heard these sermons on contemplative prayer and I find nothing "disturbing" about them. (The Song of Solomon sermons were a tough pill to swallow, I'll admit.)
The tendency here, especially with secondary issues, is to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There is not going to be a preacher out there you will find that you'll agree with on EVERYTHING. I adore Alistair Begg, and if you've never read and heard John Piper, you are missing out immensely. But I take issue with them on certain aspects of their style, philosophy and method, as well.
Meditation, as was quoted by someone else above, is not the pagan method of emptying one's mind. It was a scary concept for me, as well, at first. We ask the Holy Spirit to come into our hearts, to infill us, and reveal to us the will of the Father. That is never an unrighteous prayer. Maybe God won't answer every time we do this, but if we're doing it out of some sort of devotional ritual, He most certainly should NOT answer every time. He wants our hearts and minds to be focused on Him and if some Christians find that simply being "still and know that I AM God." helps them reach some sort of peace and understanding, then it's of God and not the flesh.
The Spirit can give us understanding. Meditation on the Word should be simply seeking that understanding. It's not a demand. Once it becomes a demand, it ceases to be God-oriented and becomes us-oriented.
I believe a common mistake we as Christians also make, is to recoil like a snake the second we hear something that challenges our conceptions of what constitutes prayer, or worship, or approaches to teaching. John Wesley WAS correct, and so were you! We MUST establish what the essentials are before we can categorize things into the "Secondary Column".
I hope you'll pardon the accusatory tone. God is working on me for more mercy. lol
Mark Driscoll is reaching people for Christ. I truly believe that and I truly believe that is his aim, desire and goal. We must take into account the demographic he is reaching, as well. Seattle is one of the most unchurched cities in the country, mired in liberalism and social activism, and the people who will be changed there must have someone willing to come along side them. Mark is VERY rough around the edges. He will tell you that himself. He'd tell you he's lacking in graciousness on many levels. But he's not teaching aberrant theology. There's no Prosperity Gospel being taught, no mysticism being encouraged. He's encouraging INTIMACY with Christ; one thing sorely lacking in the modern Christian church in America these days.
It is good to vigorously discuss these issues, but NOT divide over them. Thank you for posting your thoughts on the matter. I see a fervent desire to discuss and defend the Truth, and Christ behind it! God Bless you!
I look forward to future posts!
Sometimes I think that word association is very detrimental to our Christian walk. For example, sometimes I will hear a preacher that I believe is teaching extremely false doctrine say certain keywords like Glory or something to that effect. Or a person might be a false teacher, and is teaching about prophecy incorrectly. SO now when I hear statements about the glory of God and prophecy I tend to want to put my fingers in my ears. But isn't that what Satan wants?
ReplyDeleteSatan is all about taking the things of God, and twisting His Word. There is nothing wrong with understanding the glory of God, or prophecy. God wants us to have greater understanding of who He is, (although He will always be greater than our understanding).
To when I hear the word meditate, I understand why you might cringe. You had horrible experiences in the past, and so your skin might be a little more sensitive in those areas. Might I suggest that you check out some synonyms for meditation. (concentration, deep thought, introspection, pondering, quiet time, reflection, rumination, self-examination).
T0 give a little different perspective when I read the steps I don't take issue with the presentation.
Step by step:
1. We are to pray without ceasing, but we are also to pray behind closed doors (Matt 6:6)
2. Speaking to the audience his sermon's are directed to (20 somethings that are new Christians) he is really explaining something simple about our faith. We are to make a concerted effort to spend quiet time with him. (Emphasis on the word TIME).
3. We are to reflect on His word.
4. Christ was the final prophet, and we are not to add anything to His Word. However, that does not mean our understanding of His word does not increase. That is why the Bible emphasizes that it is so important that we move from milk to meat. Nothing in this final step talks about new revelations from God. It simply points to the fact that we should ask God for greater understanding about who He is. (Look at step 3 and the suggestions for verses. It talks about the character and understanding of God).
If anything I believe this approach helps focus on Sola Scriptura. It points that we are to meditate on His words. The post was written in context to meditating on "God's word and God's goodness."
I appreciate your hard work. There are a lot of people out there that need to be steered clear from the trap that is New Age Spirituality!
Well said, Shaun!!
ReplyDeleteI find it such a strange thing that people can not believe that God may speak audibly to them---or speak to them through their reading of the scripture...I can not see how this kind of hair- splitting on how a person prays can be just reason to disregard someone as a teacher. I have never practiced "contempletive" prayer as you describe it here...but I have definitely known in my spirit when God spoke to me--and a couple times it was an audible voice--at least audible to me--though I know no one else was privy to the "sound"--as the "audibility" of His voice was in my spirit--not outside my body as another person in the room speaking would be. Prayer is simply talking to God--a conversation between you and Him--and sometimes He answers through the word as you read it while praying. Other times, He speaks into your spirit what He would have you know--and it is easy to tell if what you "hear" is God or not---Because when it is God, it ALWAYS lines up with scripture...and when it is just you putting your own desires out as "right"--it #1 doesn't line up with scripture and #2 you know it in your heart of hearts (conscience). People know when they haven't waited on God or are disregarding His guidance. If you are not able to pray in such a way as to hear God-- I am sad for you as His presence is glorious--and I pray that one day you do experience Him truly meeting with you in prayer.
ReplyDeleteIn this article by Mark Driscoll, Driscoll recommends Celebration of Discipline by Richard Foster for those who would like to "study spiritual disciplines in greater detail."
ReplyDeletehttp://theresurgence.com/obedience_to_scripture
Foster, though he denies it, is a proponent of pagan mystical meditation.
I recommend "A Time of Departing" by Ray Yungen for a better understanding of what mantra meditation is. You see, although Foster clearly states in his book Celebration of Discipline that he is not promoting eastern style meditation, he then goes on to describe.....eastern style, mind-emptying, mantra meditation. It doesn't matter that Christian terminology is sprinkled liberally on top; it is still a pagan practice.
And so with all due respect Marty/Shamslam, I would again contend: this is not a secondary issue. This is an essential.
I wrote earlier, "Great article, Christine" I realize I may have just miswrote... in that there are Sola SisterS. Sorry, it may have been, "Great article, Lisa." Mea culpa as they say in Latin. Blessings to you, sisters.
ReplyDeleteThanks Justification by Grace - There are 3 of us who officially write for the blog (Christine, Cathy and Lisa) and then guest writers from time to time. None of us wants "credit" for what we write, but I appreciate the encouragement and kind words.
ReplyDeleteThe Word is living and active (Hebrews 4:12-13), but you wrote that personal words from God is opposite to sola scriptura? How does that work? Scripture is not just words on a page, it is living and active, speaking to us personally and comunally.
ReplyDeleteRemember Luther claimed that his justification by faith 'revelation' came to him after meditating on the scriptures. It was a personal word from God to him through the living Word.
Sola Scriptura means a commitment to the living Word, that can divide between bone and marrow, and has to be spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14-16). We need the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth, as Jesus said He would, words on a page do not suffice.
Here's what I conclude from what you've quoted from Driscoll. They're instructing people to read and meditate on the scripture and hear from God through the scripture what He is saying. Heck, that sounds fully reformed to me, I don't see anything there that talks about contemplative spirituality, 'extra' revelation or the like. That's simply saying: put time aside every day for God to speak to you through His Word. I fully believe He does and He will, because He promises to always be with us.
Sorry to be ranty but I think you're missing out how 'sola scripture' and 'personal words from God' work hand in hand together.
This is why most reformed christian rarely ever do anything to change the world, they are to busy finding fault and being some kind of watch dogs. Without the power of the Holy Spirit in operation in your life, all you will ever do is sit and feed yourself, and criticize what you do not have. Get Filled with the Spirit and go into all the world!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteMark Driscoll has been throwing up red flags for a few years now. When I was introduced to Driscoll a few years ago, my major concern with the "cussing" pastor was his cussing(Col 3:8).
ReplyDeleteI hope and pray that Driscoll repents.
"with contemplative prayer, God is being "called down," as if we even have the ability to do that!"
ReplyDeleteWhat about David & other kings using Urim & THummin in the OT to "conjure" up the Lord and receive words from him? if a servant of the lord in the OT can "Conjure" Him up, His own sons & daughters in the NT can't expect to hear him speak when the "boldly" approach the throne of grace? You my friend are simply in a religious box. A pharissee, who delights in the written LAW but completely missed the Spirit, who according to PAUL who wrote most of the NT, is more important. the letter kills but spirit gives LIFE.
Ryan - I think you will find the 2 articles by Bob DeWaay helpful.
ReplyDeleteMatthew - I think you will find the Hebrews scripture I quoted in the post helpful. Yes, we may boldly approach the throne of grace, but that does not mean whipping up some kind of mystical experience. We approach only through the blood of Christ. The Bible comes to us through progressive revelation, with Christ being the full and final fulfillment. The Hebrews passage speaks to that. That is why we don't use Urim & Thummim today. Or go to a temple to sacrifice animals. Those were types and shadows used in a specific time and place, but they were incomplete and imperfect. "But when the perfect comes, the imperfect falls away." (1 Cor 13:10)
The Bible is the final Word on truth and all matters. Jesus himself said that He was the Word, so when we are studying the Bible, we are studying Christ himself. Do we need more than that?
I get that we're living in postmodern era in which navel-gazing Americans seem to think they have to have some kind of "experience" to validate their beliefs. But that's just simply not scriptural. I say, if someone wants to conjure up some kind of mystical experience, by all means, have at it. But just be clear that that is not Christianity....that is paganism.
Answering Rob Kennedy;
ReplyDeleteRick Warren is out to change the world!
I certainly don’t want any of that.
Even if he were to change the world, he would succeed only on making this world a better place to go to hell from!
If any change is to come to this world it must start with the individual, God will take care of the rest. I read the book to the end, I know how it ends! Its not a nice ending!
At least not until Jesus returns and throws all the non-believers in to hell! Only then can the world be truly changed.
As for the here and now, I shall concentrate on changing myself, (work out your own salvation) and some days, that is a full time job. (My old man (sin nature) still rears his ugly head from time to time!
Here is a definition of mysticism.
ReplyDelete"A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience."
All I am saying is that when the Holy Spirit truly works, He illuminates on a subjective level. The subjective defintion is He takes what is ours in Christ and makes in plain to us by His word. The illumination could be when you are walking down the street without your nose directly in front of a Bible. The Spirit makes plain the scriptures in every day practical life.
In John 4, true worship consists of spirit and truth. The two are inseperable. A true prophet and spokesperson for God will be subject to the previous revelation and testimony of the prophets. His authority is not innate for He does not speak of his own authority. Jesus did not speak of His own authority in His earthly ministry.
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works."
The prophets are subject to the prophets (1 Cor. 14:32) Men under the New Covenant with a ture prophetic gift will not speak of their own authority but the Spirit of God will speak through them.
Test the spirits brethren.
Dylan – there is nothing wrong – and everything right – about true Biblical meditation. But that is not what is being promoted by Driscoll at his Acts 29 Network/Resurgence. What is posted above is just a thumbnail sketch, but further into Acts 29, readers are directed to books by Richard Foster and Dallas Willard, both of which teach a type of “Christianized” mysticism that involves the use of pagan practices. Deep meditation is fine as long as there is no emptying of the mind, and that is what Acts 29 is teaching through the promotion of these books.
ReplyDeleteI am not telling you these things as just a researcher, someone who writes from a purely academic point of view. I’m speaking as a former mystic, someone who went deeply into the supernatural realm to “meet with God,” and quoted Bible verses all along the way, thinking that this made it all okay. I can testify to you that I used exactly the same process for going into this realm as Foster and Willard teach. I invite you to do your own research on this. I’m working on an article about this process, titled “It Only Takes 20 Minutes.” The reason for this article is to help educate Christians who, often in innocence, tend to think that if you’re going into the occult, it is this bizarre, arcane very involved process. But it is not. It only takes 20 minutes. And it can be done in a light filled room, with hymns playing in the background, and the name of God and Jesus being invoked all along the way. And I can almost guarantee that going into the supernatural realm in this way, at least at first, will result in very positive experiences, because, after all, the Bible tells us that even Satan can masquerade as an angel of light.
Let me give you an example. I have a friend who does street witnessing and evangelism in a very dark area of the city we live in. She recently sent an email update that included this story about 2 different men she witnessed to. One was talking happily about his experiences “meeting with God” in the occultic realm, about his encounters making him more creative, fulfilled, whatever. He mocked the gospel message when she gave it. The 2nd man approached her table, and started asking her questions about demons, and she gave him biblical answers. She said he began to cry and wanted to know how to make them go away. This perfectly encapsulates the different ends of the spectrum for this kind of occultic experience. Satan is more than happy to give positive experiences.... in the beginning, that is. But at the end, those demons will always turn on people. They're after blood. They want us, the creatures created in God's image, dead, because we're the next best thing to striking at God himself.
This is why I write about mysticism and try to warn people about the true dangers of it. I’m not a hater, I’m not trying to deny that people can truly be deeply and profoundly blessed by appropriate biblical meditation. But we are commanded by God not to synchronize our practices with pagan practices, and that is exactly what this type of meditation does. To enter into this realm– with clear Scriptural warnings against doing so from God- leaves us without excuse and without protection.
"This is why I write about mysticism and try to warn people about the true dangers of it. I’m not a hater, I’m not trying to deny that people can truly be deeply and profoundly blessed by appropriate biblical meditation. But we are commanded by God not to synchronize our practices with pagan practices, and that is exactly what this type of meditation does. To enter into this realm– with clear Scriptural warnings against doing so from God- leaves us without excuse and without protection."
ReplyDeleteTo quote you.
Now to quote Martin Lloyd Jones-
"The opposite of false mysticism is not a complete absense of mysticism, it is true mysticism."
I see we speak past each other because I am not talking about us doing mere Biblical mediation. I am talking about something being done to us subjectively by the Spirit. His person applies the Word and work of Christ. He is the Spirit of truth that leads us into all truth.
Again, test the spirits brethren.
someone should read the writings of many early 'christian mystics.' LOL LOL LOL silly people being good bereans but missing the pulsing love-HEART of God! surely there's some error in some of the 'mystics' writings because they were written by fallible humans!! JUST LIKE THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION!!.... but many of the works teach things like desiring the one true God through the Cross of Jesus by opening your heart for Him to fill with pure, powerful, experiential love, forgiveness, TRUTH [no not apart from His ETERNAL WORD!] HEHE someone forgot that when you ask Him for bread He does not give you a stone. Silly people, God loves us and showed us through Jesus and His Word! Is He so small to not know what your heart desires when it calls for Him, no matter if it looks 'mystical' to the outsider!?? [no outsider should be privy to seeing your love expression anyway as 'contemplation' of this sort happens alone in your prayer closet with Him]. Yes the devil is really real and really evil and really deceptive and comes as light...BUT MY SWEET JESUS IS SO MUCH BIGGER, HALLELUJAH! the devil only comes as light because Jesus is the REAL light...so just because there's 'light' involved in something should i reject it for fear of being deceived?? or test it and hold true to that which is good!? should my fear of deception be so much stronger than my TRUST IN THE LORD FOR PROTECTION?? NO! NEVER! PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT FEAR!! on that note, i will continue to press into His LIVING PRESENCE OF LOVE AND TRUTH ALONG WITH HIS WRITTEN WORD no matter what a well-meaning brother or sister thinks who would like to deter me. His love is too sweet for me to give it up! My trust in Him is too complete to give any headway to demons appearing as angels! And when I delight in Him, He does not lead me astray, little sheep as i am...and even His WORD says He wants to KNOW me...this word means INTIMACY! = after i read His love letter to me written in scripture, I get to blow kisses to the lover of my soul, and He receives it and kisses me back! i love you, dear dear Sola Sisters, and appreciate your intentions...haha! JESUS i pray you bless these dear readers with true discernment - the Word illuminated with the light of your living love and Holy Spirit! in closing, this is not an argument...maybe i don't have all the answers, but i know who does, and i want Him to know me! how can He be intimate with me if i won't open to Him!?? LOL GET US, JESUS!
ReplyDeleteSola Sisters, I've made a term for the likes of Driscoll and Tim Keller, etc.: Reformergent. They merge Reformed teaching with Emergent teaching (which includes Contemplative Spirituality).
ReplyDeletePagan mysticism isn't the same thing as worshipping and THINKING on the Word of God. TOTALLY different. Mediation according to Scripture is to THINK on the Word of God and praise HIM with your whole MIND:
Psa 1:1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.
Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
1Co 14:15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
Driscoll, the X-rated "pastor" should be shunned.
This is not good. This is the reason why I don't think you can be Reformed and Charismatic without running into error. For the Reformed Charismatics, they seem to be more experimental in their approach. However, I guess a lot of them who didn't have Charismatic upbringings won't understand some of the dangers involved with Pentecostalism as a whole.
ReplyDeleteJhay Phoenix - I completely agree. It's so odd to me to hear of reformed pastors rushing headlong into mystical charismania.
ReplyDelete"Reformed Charismatic" is an oxymoron, like "Jumbo Shrimp" or "Airline Food"
SS
i still love you all! i pray that TRUTH finds me and you!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteTitus 3:9 look her up
ReplyDelete"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless." Titus 3:9
ReplyDeleteI totally agree, Anonymous. The problem though, is that correct discernment about forbidden occultic mysticism being brought into churches doesn't fall under the heading of "foolish controversies."
Deuteronomy 29:29 look her up ;)
As Bob DeWaay discussed several years back in his brilliant series "The Colossians Heresy," we have a mediated God, as opposed to an immediate God (note the similar root word there "mediate"). Today - as in all cultures past - people want immediate access to God, and more often than not, employ occultic means to get there. Even professing Christians, who would rather have "an experience" than do the heavy lifting of deep Bible study.
http://cicministry.org/radio_series.php?series=sufficiency
I came from a word faith or prosperity gospel back ground and when i first listened to Mark Driscoll i loved him. my theology began to under go a change and I renounced my aberrant doctrinal stance and started a reformed pathway and kept looking for sound teaching on the net. I loved driscoll till several red flags kept flashing and it really is sad when you initially trust a preacher and soon after that you begin to see them stray from orthodoxy into grey areas and also notice a change in direction. I am hesitant in calling him a heretic but I would say he has raised concern in his theology. Which basically means tread with caution.
ReplyDeleteMichael - I agree about Driscoll. I would hesitate to say that he is a heretic, because he does seem to have a well-rounded understanding of salvation and how that happens. But at the same time, he has aligned himself with some very concerning things (such as contemplative mysticism). For this reason, he is on my "watch list." This means I would not, under any circumstances, recommend his books or teaching to anyone. Perhaps he will repent and come back into the fold. That would be a glorious thing! But as of right now, that has not happened.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever read the Psalms? "...and on his Word I meditate, day and night." Meditation is all over Scripture, specifically the Psalms. Nothing about Driscoll's specific commands are unscriptural. Mysticism is a real thing and it is wrong, but you failed to prove that Driscoll's stuff is mystical. Meditation does not equal mysticism. Do you not practice, or try to practice, Driscoll's steps? As a Christian, you definitely should! You need to have a better understanding of Scripture (Sola Scriptura, after all!!!) before you condemn someone. This blog entry gives several verses on meditation: http://bible.org/article/biblical-meditation
ReplyDeleteSolas Sisters,
ReplyDeleteI understand that it has been some time since this article was written, but I have a few concerns about your handling of this material and judgement rendered upon another Christian worker. I want to be careful here as I know that I am a man with many faults and want to be loving in my admonishment. While I have no doubt your intentions are honorable, I have a couple of questions/concerns:
1. Mark Driscoll did not write the article you mentioned above. And yes, it does appear on the Resurgence website, but the fact remains, it was not written by Mark.
2. Before writing your article did you seek out Pastor Mark and ask him why he supports something you have strong feelings against? Did you email him, IM him, call him or make any attempt to seek him out in private? Did you make any attempt to live out Matthew 18:15? I'm sure that he is a busy guy and may not have responded, however that does not excuse us from trying.
3. How does your article seek to build up the church and promote unity within the body? To put it bluntly, your article seems more accusatory and seeks to create division by putting Pastor Mark on the "watch list" and the consequences that come with that. Imho, it fails to live out Ephesians 4:1-4.
I am still digging into the truth portion of the article. It has brought about some interesting questions on how to properly meditate over scripture that I am looking into. I'm grateful for that.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I pray that you continue to live out the rallying cry of your blog when writing articles.
In Christ,
Adam
Adam - I will respond in several posts as I am limited as to how much information I can post in each response.
ReplyDelete1. You state that Mark Driscoll did not write the article in question. This is true. However, Mark Driscoll is the creator and proprietor of the website Resurgence, and is therefore responsible for the information he disseminates from that page. He is, after all, a pastor and a leader, and is therefore held to a higher standard. But to draw the circle a little more tightly, here is a quote from an article that WAS written by Mark Driscoll ("Obedience," The Resurgence):
"If you would like to study the spiritual disciplines in greater detail, Donald S. Whitney has written a wonderful book titled Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life that would be helpful for you to read. Also helpful are Celebration of Discipline, by Richard Foster, and Sacred Pathways, by Gary Thomas."
Here are the problems with 2 of those recommended authors and books:
CELEBRATION OF DISCIPLINE (Richard Foster) - Where to begin with the problems with Richard Foster. Well for starters, Foster is the man who virtually single-handedly brought eastern style mysticism into evangelicalism today. His 1978 book Celebration of Discipline is considered a classic in Christian circles and is taught in most seminaries, and yet it is a primer for opening people up to the eastern, pantheistic worldview idea of God-in-everything, God as the Divine "inner spark."
According to Richard Foster in Celebration of Discipline, "Eastern meditation is an attempt to empty the mind. Christian meditation is an attempt to fill the mind."
This is the heart of the battle in contemplative prayer, and EVERYONE who loves Richard Foster will point to this quote, because they have people (like me) challenging them on contemplative prayer, and how it has eastern, occultic roots. Richard Foster is being disingenuous at best and perhaps even outright deceptive. Foster can say till the cows come home that he doesn't intend for anyone to empty their minds in Christian meditation, but the fact remains that his book Celebration of Discipline is virtually a primer for occultic, eastern style, mantra meditation, in which one is taught how to employ some kind of "device" for the purpose of "emptying the mind" and corralling one's thoughts. In Buddhism, we called this "caging the monkey mind." But this is not a Christian concept or teaching.
My response to Richard Foster's pre-emptive strike aimed at distinguishing between "good" and "bad" meditation is this: What does Foster actually teach? Who does he recommend that you read to learn how to pray? Well, here is a list of the mystics quoted or endorsed in Foster's book:
- Meister Eckhart
- Thomas Merton (“I want to be the best Buddhist I can be.”)
- Ignatius of Loyola
- Theresa of Avila
- Brother Lawrence
- Madame Guyon
- George Fox - founder of the mystic order of Quakers
Foster also promotes the use of Roman Catholic rosaries and Buddhist prayer wheels (Celebration of Discipline, p. 64)
Yes, there is a form of Christian meditation that is good, and biblical and which we are commanded to do. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with going somewhere quiet, taking a few deep breaths, and putting your focus on your Bible study, and deeply studying what is before you. The problem is that this is not what Richard Foster is teaching. He is taking eastern occultic meditation techniques for emptying the mind and adding Christian terminology so as to "Christianize" what is a pagan practice.
SACRED PATHWAYS (Gary Thomas) - Gary Thomas recommends the mystic Mary Anne McPherson Oliver to his readers, and also walks his readers through the classic eastern technique for emptying the mind so as to produce an altered state of consciousness. This is not a Christian practice and is nowhere taught in the Bible.
2. No, I did not go to Mark Driscoll and ask his permission to publicly disagree with him about his public teachings. Matthew 18:15 is a wonderful scripture, but it is our guideline for dealing with private sin, not public sin.
ReplyDeleteGalatians 2:11-14 is my guide in this matter. False teachings that are publicly (and widely) disseminated must be publicly corrected:
"Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I SAID TO PETER BEFORE THEM ALL, 'If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?'" (my emphasis)
3. Unity in the body comes not through accepting any and all teachings, without judgment and without question. As I wrote in the article:
ReplyDeleteJohn Wesley had a famous saying that I love: "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, but not in the way it is often used today. Today's Christians will often quote this whenever there is any kind of disagreement, without first ascertaining whether or not the issue of concern is a matter of essential doctrine. This saying, rightly understood, means that we must first be able to distinguish between the essentials and the non-essentials. Fellow Christians have tried to convince me that this type of contemplative prayer is simply a matter of personal conviction, or in other words, a non-essential, an area of liberty. It is not.
Another saying - the one that became the motto of the Reformation period - might help steady our thinking in this regard:
"Post tenebras lux" ("After the darkness, light.")
Meaning, after the darkness of the middle ages, which were characterized by a syncretized blend of man-made traditions and paganism, came the piercing light of truth, brought forth by the reformers, and literally paid for with their own blood. The people of Martin Luther's day, because they could not read God's Word for themselves, were in terrible spiritual bondage to the whims of the Roman Catholic church. Do we esteem God's Word so little that we would allow it to be paganized again? Truth must be protected. We must reject the false teaching of pastors who claim to be Calvinists but who embrace the contemplative practices of the Roman Catholic Monastic period.
I know this was posted awhile ago but I ran into it yesterday and feel like I want to chime in... I understand the dangers of introducing contemplative prayer into the pulpit. Very much a mystic practice of emptying your mind, chanting on a word, and hoping to have a spiritual experience is definitely not Biblical. However, you cut out the part in the article on the site that defines what they are teaching about "Meditative Prayer." You took the "4 steps" out of context and defined it in your own words... contemplative.
ReplyDeleteHere is the statement regarding prayer from Winfield in the post he wrote.
"What do we mean by meditative prayer? Is there such thing as Christian meditation? Isn't meditation non-Christian? According to Richard Foster, "Eastern meditation is an attempt to empty the mind. Christian meditation is an attempt to fill the mind" (Celebration of Discipline). Rather than emptying the mind we fill it with God's word. We must not neglect a vital part of our Judeo-Christian heritage simply because other traditions use a form of meditation. Christian meditation has its roots in the Hebrew tradition of the Bible. There are numerous Biblical references to prayerful meditation:"
So when you take the 4 steps above and have a framework of "filling your mind with God's Word" and meditating on that, then you don't have what is truly defined as contemplative prayer.
I am by no means a Driscoll fan. I believe as some have stated above that he puts way too much Driscoll into his messages and is crude and often arrogant. However, what concerns me more is sites such as yours that chop up a post from a guy and label it something it is not.
Blessings,
Keith
Keith - Biblical meditation from our Judeo-Christian heritage does not involve some kind of technique for entering into an altered state of consciousness, which is what Richard Foster teaches. This is the heart of the battle in contemplative prayer, and EVERYONE who loves Richard Foster will point to this quote, because they have people (like me) challenging them on contemplative prayer, and how it has eastern, occultic roots. Richard Foster is being disingenuous at best and perhaps even outright deceptive. Foster can say till the cows come home that he doesn't intend for anyone to empty their minds in Christian meditation, but the fact remains that his book Celebration of Discipline is virtually a primer for occultic, eastern style, mantra meditation, in which one is taught how to employ some kind of "device" for the purpose of "emptying the mind" and corralling one's thoughts. In Buddhism, we called this "caging the monkey mind." But this is not a Christian concept or teaching.
DeleteMy response to Richard Foster's pre-emptive strike aimed at distinguishing between "good" and "bad" meditation is this: What does Foster actually teach? Who does he recommend that you read to learn how to pray? Well, here is a list of the mystics quoted or endorsed in Foster's book:
- Meister Eckhart
- Thomas Merton (“I want to be the best Buddhist I can be.”)
- Ignatius of Loyola
- Theresa of Avila
- Brother Lawrence
- Madame Guyon
- George Fox - founder of the mystic order of Quakers
Foster also promotes the use of Roman Catholic rosaries and Buddhist prayer wheels (Celebration of Discipline, p. 64)
Yes, there is a form of Christian meditation that is good, and biblical and which we are commanded to do. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with going somewhere quiet, taking a few deep breaths, and putting your focus on your Bible study, and deeply studying what is before you. The problem is that this is not what Richard Foster is teaching. He is taking eastern occultic meditation techniques for emptying the mind and adding Christian terminology so as to "Christianize" what is a pagan practice.